Wednesday, December 22, 2010

More Weasel Talk on Kaskus from TVI Express supporters

I don't speak Indonesian, so I use Google Translate to browse a few pages in, the largest Indonesia web forum, where a healthy debate about TVI Express has been ongoing. What's not so healthy, however, are a bunch of sorry excuses offered by TVI Express supporters they offer up to "counter" the various facts illustrating the scam known as TVI Express.

I don't claim to know the nuances of Indonesia language, but it's clear plenty of TVI Express supporters, such as Rudy Phan (tviexpressdollar) are using WEASEL LOGIC to counter facts and logic.

For example, when confronted with the fact that TVI Express is illegal in Georgia, USA, their reply can be summarized as "that's only 1 state out of 50 states in the USA". What they will not discuss: Why would TVI Express be legal in the OTHER 49 states, and just be illegal in Georgia? Is Georgia's law that different? Scam is scam, no matter how you dissect it.

When confronted with the news that Muslim council of Aceh Province in Indonesia has declared TVI Express "haram" (unclean), their reply can be summarized as "that's only one province in Indonesia" and "the local TVI Express rep must have explained it wrong". No supporter bothered analyzing the actual decision, on WHY TVI Express is haram: it is a money game, pure and simple.

When confronted with the fact that TVI Express is NOT in London, but still claims to be "headquartered in London", Rudy Phan / tviexpressdollar posted supposed "rebuttal" of that fact, claiming that Heathrow is really a part of London, and there is no such thing as "London city limits". Mr. Phan, people who live in Tangerang must be surprised to find that according to you, they actually live IN Jakarta, not Tangerang, just because the International airport serving Jakarta is closer to Tangerang.

When confronted with the fact that TVI Express does NOT have a MLM license in Indonesia, Rudy Phan came up with an explanation that TVI Express is NOT MLM, but rather some sort of a new franchising that has SOME aspects of MLM. However, there are a dozen different refrences on TVI Express website referring to itself as network marketing or MLM, thus making Rudy Phan a liar, and violating TVI Express Ethical Marketing rules.

When confronted with fact that TVI Express had presented a misleading quote from Warren Buffett that seem to imply TVI Express is owned by Warren Buffett, Rudy Phan (and plenty of others) claimed that TVI Express made no such claim, and Rudy Phan went as far as accusing me of invented the accusation. However, references can be found ALL OVER THE INTERNET that TVI Express supporters claimed that TVI Express was either invested in or is owned by Warren Buffett (and sometimes, Sir Richard Branson as well).

TVI Express supporters simply ASSUMED themselves to be right, and everybody else to be wrong, and focus on the aspects of "inconvenient" facts they can discredit. If there's nothing to discredit, they will invent something, as illustrated above, even when there are easily found facts to the contrary. They lie.

You know what this sound like? Deniers. Deniers simply refuse to accept facts. They will try to find fault with everything contrary to their position, by assuming their own position is right.

The most famous deniers are the holocaust deniers. These are the people who denies that Holocaust of the Jews actually happened during WW2. They claim the holocaust never happened, or did not occur to the extent that the Jews claimed. Evidence proving the Holocaust was "manufactured" (by the Jews, of course). Testimony was "coerced" or "faulty memory". They refuse to account for the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence, claiming it's a global conspiracy.

Another famous group of deniers would be the evolution deniers, also known as creationists, who believe the Biblical version of creation: it only took 6 days, and earth is only a few thousand years old. Science? They got it all wrong. Fossils? Don't mean nothing. Evolution? Crackpot theory. Why? The Bible, of course.

TVI Express supporters are basically denying every bit of truth out there, or trying to negotiate the fact and hope it will go away. It's illegal here? It's still legal there. TVI Express not in London? Expand "London". TVI Express MLM? I say TVI Express no MLM (even though TVI Express calls itself MLM). Just like the other deniers, they refuse to accept the OVERWHELMING amount of evidence indicating that TVI Express is a scam.

The old saying goes: Where there is smoke, there is fire. The smoke is now chokingly thick (over a dozen countries investigating, supposed leader Tarun Trikha gone from advisory board, trip redemption problems, TVI Express charging fees for "free" trips, no transparency of officers or owners, no real payout in real money, and much much more)  Yet TVI Express supporters are STILL claiming there is no heat and no fire. 

What's next? What other lies will TVI Express supporters tell just to hang on to their dreams?


Nidya Astrini said...

"When confronted with the news that Muslim council of Aceh Province in Indonesia has declared TVI Express "haram" (unclean), their reply can be summarized as "that's only one province in Indonesia" and "the local TVI Express rep must have explained it wrong""

Actually, Rudy didn't write that, I a form of sarcasm..but, hey! he didn't deny it either.

He claimed that TVI is 100% halal, but he also admitted that he knows very little about Islamic Trade Law. Odddddd...

Kasey Chang said...

Is Rudy even Muslim? If not, how can he claim to know what is halal and what is not? :) I thought you need to be an Imam at least to be invited to join the council? :)

Weasel talk... Bleh bleh bleh.

Nidya Astrini said...

Well, being an imam doesn't automatically make you qualified to declare a fatwa. Since the details of money game isn't explained in Qur'an, people use the process of ijtihad to determine the law. People who conduct an ijtihad called mujtahid and it isn't easy to be one. You can see some of the qualifications here

I think Mr.Phan is not a Muslim. He has a bachelor degree in theology from Duta Wacana Christian University.

Kasey Chang said...

Well, if Rudy Phan can claim TVI Express is NOT MLM, when TVI Express website says it is, then of course he can claim to know what is halal for Muslims when he's not Muslim.

Doesn't mean any one will believe him.

The Westerners call it "hoisted by one's own petard". Chinese version is "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword" (Well, actually it's "General will die in a battlefield", but same idea)