Some more classic "dogma" from TVI Express

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Kim Willis runs a multi-purpose website that includes tips on blogging, branding, MLM, and so on, and is one of the first US MLM coaches to call TVI Express a scam (September 2009). On another website he reports MLM news, and this is some classic "comments" left by TVI Express supporters with "faith" when ACCC in Australia initiated legal action against TVI Team Oz, and MLM News reported it in May 2010.
Comment #1

Tony Wyche wrote 31 May 2010, 7:09 am

You missed the number word in this charge and that word is “alleged”. These people along with TVI Express are innocent until proven guilty and already critics are quick to convict. Make no sense. Everybody knows that sooner or later all new companies are going to be challenged by some Govt entity. It just a matter of time. YTB, Pyxism, are being challenged now in the US. I dont hear nobody sounding the alarm about these companies and there are more of them. I read the accused’s site information and as far as I can see, they haven’t broken any laws other than from what Im reading here. I see 2 flaws so far that might get them in trouble. One is TVI’s membership fee. It’s not $330 to join TVI. It’s a $250 membership fee + $25 intl currency fee which total $275. And 2, you do not purchase a travel voucher when you initially join TVI Express. You are purchasing a membership to the travel program offered by TVI Express. That’s the product that keeps getting left out and people dont seem to understand. From what Im reading, this would make this program a pyramid scheme. But that’s not how we market TVI Express here.

A search through Internet archive shows that Mr. Wyche, based in state of Virginia, had been trying to defend TVI Express for a while. He had done so on Troy Dooly's website as well. However, his statements has many problems.

First, Mr. Wyche basically cannot discredit the ACCC case against TVI Express, and in turn tries to plant "reasonable doubt", such as "Other companies had been challenged before, and will be in the future". He named YTB, but that is indeed a pyramid scheme, declared so in two states, including California. I have not seen any legal challenges to Pyxism, which doesn't mean it's not there, just I haven't seen any. In either case it's NOT relevant. This is known as the "heresy" argument... "We may not be accepted now, but we will be triumphant!" It is FAITH, not based on any facts or logic. It is good for a coach or a leader, but it is not a valid "argument" or even logical.

Second, Mr. Wyche does not seem to understand that this "travel membership" he's selling is promising $10000+$500 USD for recruiting 224 people. THAT IS A PYRAMID SCHEME: you get paid for recruiting people, who will also be paid for recruiting people... It doesn't matter what he's marketing it as. It may have ancillary benefits (which are impossible to redeem or are worth ZERO), but those are irrelevant.



Comment #2:

fansta 01 June 2010, 11:50 pm

All networkers, tviexpress is not a pyramid!!! Do your research properly folks. The ACCC shouldnt be wasting taxpayers money chasing a ghost. Ok so the travel vouchers (which incidentally seems to be a big gripe) are not accessible yet to Australian members but tviexpress are working overtime to sort this minor issue. A 6 month extension has been put in place so people can utilize their vouchers. The ACCC has unfounded evidence to date. Since when can internet based info which is usually only reviews & gossip be taken as evidence in a court of law… oh hang on this is Australia we are talking about. I say before any one crucifies the leaders in Australia and wait for it… they will have their day in court soon and no doubt the government will be paying big time for compensation. I say payback is going to be cruel and why do I say this….because ACCC (mistake no 1)thought that TVI Express was owned by 3 individuals… in fact it is an international company and guess what Kim Willis the company has come out to play and financially backing the team. So watch this space all you negative gossipers TVI Express is going to come back bigger and better once court is over.

First thing to note: does this letter contain any facts? Verifiable facts? NONE WHATSOEVER. All it contains is accusations: "ACCC has unfounded evidence", which is an oxymoron. Evidence is evidence. Accusation can be unfounded, which means it is not based on evidence, but how can EVIDENCE be unfounded?

Second, slight correction, it contains ONE fact... The travel vouchers, which is the 7-day 6-night thing are NOT redeemable by Australians. Actually it's more like not redeemable by EVERYBODY (except a few in India), but that's besides the point. In June 2010 TVI Express announced that redemption is "fixed", but costs extra $150 as "processing fees and taxes". So the trip's worth nothing, has been impossible to redeem all along, and nobody knows what hotel can be used except 130 or so IN INDIA. 

TVI Express in AUSTRALIA is operated primarily by the three individuals, TVI Team Oz. Australian government has no jurisdiction OUTSIDE of Australia, but they can sure prosecute anybody IN Australia. Thus, even the part accusing the wrong part is, well, bull****.
Comment #3

mary fogelberg 31 August 2010, 5:24 pm

I know the three TVI leaders who, as I write, are in court facing charges by ACCC – they are three very genuine and caring people who have provided incredible support to assist many TVI members, myself included, to earn a decent income – whatsmore, TVI has now produced a list of free hotels, one of which, my husband and I will stay in when we visit India shortly. I know other TVI members who have also enjoyed stays at hotels in Indonesia just recently and were delighted with the hotels they stayed in.
Also to those who are unaware, TVI is covering all the legal fees imposed on Sydney’s three fantastic leaders, now would TVI be wasting their money if they were a scam? OK, I agree, TVI certainly had some issues that needed addressing, and they have now been resolved, the big problem with TVI was that it grew too big too quickly and had to address teething problems such as updating booking engines, credit card security and such – they were out of action for a lengthy period, during which time I and others I know stopped working the business, but as TVI promised, they are now back on track with a very secure product and business plan in tact, and anyone joining for AUD$330, a one-off fee ever, absolutely no other charges, will be amazed at how easy it is for anyone who is prepared to put in a bit of hard work, to earn a decent income in a short time just as I have and many others have done, and at the same time enjoy a free 7nite/8day hotel stay – of course it doesn’t include taxes, why should it if the hotel accommodation is free, most discount flights don’t include taxes either, when I read these critcisms such as the cover story on this page, I can’t help thinking that it is just a jealous competitor who wishes their MLM company was reaping the same rewards for all their members as TVI is – I just hope that justice is not made a mockery of and that the three TVI leaders are rightfully exonerated and can get on with their lives and doing what they are best at – helping others to enjoy a much better lifestyle as they have done for me and many other TVi members

Ms. Fogelberg managed to commit many of the same errors when trying to argue an accusation:

* Using personal opinions instead of fact -- these are "caring people", "incredible support", "helped me". While there's nothing wrong with personal opinion, this also makes her unsuitable for ANY sort of objectivity. A member of a pyramid scheme who think she's in a legitimate business, not a con, is NOT going to bad mouth her upline. Her opinion in this case means very little, other than as "character witness".

* Assertions with ZERO proof, and even then, it's not relevant -- she claimed that TVI Express is paying for the lawyer in TVI Team Oz's defense. Where did that information come from? No idea. Most likely, an upline told her, which made it "dogma", not fact or logical deductions.

*Also keep in mind that the lawyers either were very stupid, or the 3 members of TVI Team Oz were very stupid and ignored the lawyers' advice, because despite court injunctions, they specifically went to multiple branches and EMPTIED their bank account specifically violating the injunctions. If TVI Express paid for the lawyers, the money's wasted.

The rest of the comment is just opinions, with NO FACTS to back them up at all. Then it's off to "accuse a jealous competitor" or "blame the conspiracy".

Three comments, same pattern: no fact at all. Merely UNFAILING FAITH that somehow TVI Express is innocent, but ZERO evidence.