Thursday, May 27, 2010

7 more lies by TVI Express

The following was posted by a TVI Express member in China in their version of Yahoo! Answers, where other members answer questions. In this case, "Is TVI Express a pyramid scheme?"  Unfortunately, I think the author copied someone else's explanation, replaced SOME of the references "Freedom Club?" to TVI, and tried to pass it off as an explanation. Let's analyze the 7 reasons to see how bogus they are.


TVI与传销的区别(七个不同)


7 Differences between TVI Express and pyramid scheme

① 产品性质不同
Difference in product

非法传销组织销售的产品多数是实物产品(不可重复销售),其利润来自单个产品的超值 销售利润(有限的);尽管商品价格一般都远远高于公开的合理市价,例如300元的摇摆机强行卖到3900元;但其价格也不可能无限加价;这样的产品销售的 结果,必然伤害消费者,伤害会员的利益,危害社会。
Illegal pyramid organization usually sell real products (cannot be sold multiple times), and the profit is from huge marketups (limited); and the products are usually above the "market" reasonable prices, such as a $300 vibrating machine sold at $3900; yet the markup cannot go on indefinitely; thus the result of selling such items ends up hurting the consumer, hurting the members, and hurting society. 


而TVI俱乐部销售的是旅游服务产品,这类产品具有可以无限次重复销售的特性;公司通过战略 联盟,在网络上发展会员,以量制价,让更多的会员享受优质低价的旅游服务;会员加盟TVI,可以在网络上预订全世界的宾馆、饭店住宿房间,选择范围更大, 享受服务更周到,价格更低廉。会员通过加盟,还可以获得推广赚取佣金的机会,是一个多方共赢的营销利润体系。会员越多,各个联盟单位及会员个人都各自增加 利润;并不伤害任何人的利益,对社会有利无害。

TVI [Express] "club" sells travel service product, and can be indefinitely resold; through Internet, recruit online, and allow more people to book high quality low price travel service; people joining TVI [Express] can reserve hotels all over the world, enjoy higher quality, lower cost, better service, as well as a chance to earn commission by recruiting. It is a win-win system. The more members there are, the more people will benefit. Nobody is hurt, and the society benefits.

ANALYSIS: Sounds good, until it fails to explain how having more members would cause everybody to benefit.

People who join TVI Express are only interested in that $10000 USD. They are NOT interesting in selling travel at all. So you can pretty much conclude the explanation is, well, "hogwash".

The argument employed a variety of logical fallacies, including strawman, red herring, AND weak analogy. It basically tries to establish TVI Express as the "opposite" of a "typical" pyramid scheme, by explaining the effects of a "typical" pyramid scheme, and how TVI Express is "not" that.  However, all this does not explain why TVI Express is legal. All it really did was explain that TVI Express is NOT a "typical" pyramid scheme.




②主观动机不同

Main motivation is different

非法传销组织者的主观动机就是要以拉人头,吃下线的方式来获取巨额利 润,而不是真正以经营商品为目的;自由俱乐部是以发展电子商务,促进自由旅行事业发展为目的,存在本质上的区别。
Illegal pyramid scammer's primary purpose is to recruit, to earn huge profits, not by selling products. TVI [Express] free club is to expand e-commerce, facilitate travel as its purpose, and fundamental difference.

ANALYSIS: What you got here is an OPINION, with no FACT to back it up. TVI Express has nothing it requires you to sell, except itself. Its purpose cannot be to facilitate travel when it only requires you to recruit. Thus, the "fundamental difference" does not exist.

③经营模式不同
Operating mode is different

非法 传销没有固定店铺和摊位,行动隐蔽, 强制购买,甚至限制人身自由。而自由俱乐部是全球性的电子商务事业,公开经营,正当合法。自愿加盟;没有金字塔,也没有强制消费,全球统一的奖金制度,统 一用企业对工帐户全球支付。(企业对工账号只有合法机构才能申请)
Illegal pyramid have no fixed location, is secretive, force purchases, and even hold people against their will. [freedom club? TVI Express?] club is a global electronic business, operating legitimately. You join at your own will, no pyramid, no requirement to spend, same incentive globally, and you pay into a global merchant account (only a legal company can get that)

Analysis: TVI Express has no pyramid? BULL****! Also, as long as a company is legally registered it can get a merchant account easily enough. It just means TVI Express have put more thought into its scam. Having a merchant account in itself means nothing. 

④结构体系不同
Organization is different

非法传销是一个金字塔形组织结构,而TVI俱乐部是 是一个阶段性,循环矩阵的循环获利结构;属于新型的电子商务,网络营销模式,加盟会员只要努力,人人有机会赚大钱。
Pyramid scheme is a pyramid-shaped organization. TVI [Express] club is a tiered cycling matrix, a new type of e-commerce, with Internet sales. Any one who join, as long as they work hard, can have a chance to earn big money.

ANALYSIS: No matter what term you use... matrix, board, forced matrix, cycler, it is STILL a pyramid. Just because you *say* it is not a pyramid doesn't make it true. 

⑤组织依托不同
Sponsor is different

非 法传销一般都和黑社会组织联系在一起,而我们和黑社会毫不沾边。我们依托的是国际化的大型正规合法经营的公司,做的是旅游服务项目的推广,全球联网操作, 不需聚会炒作。
Illegal pyramid schemes usually has some elements of the Mafia or illegal enterprises. We have no link with that world. We are a part of International legitimate operating organization, selling travel across the globe.

ANALYSIS: This is a circular argument. We are legitimate because... we are not illegitimate. It also brought up a strawman: we're not associated with the Mafia or such. Evidence? Don't have any. Besides, you don't need to be associated with illegal backers to be illegal. Red Herring and strawman.


⑥发展结局不同

Endgame is different

非法传销的最终结局是金字塔大崩溃,传销组织者卷款潜逃;或者被国家取缔。而我们的矩阵循环结构永远不 会崩溃,会员收入全部直接全球支付到个国家银行卡,方便快捷。公司拥有合理合法的利润收入,因此一直会良性循环、持续长远的发展下去。
Pyramid scheme's end game is collapse of pyramid. The leaders take the money and run, or get caught by the government. Our "cycler matrix" will not collapse. The income is paid to bank cards, easy and quick. The company has legitimate income and will continue to operate and expand. 

ANALYSIS:  1) You don't even KNOW who is the organizer of TVI Express. How would you know they haven't pocketed the money and run yet?  2) Who says governments aren't after TVI Express? China is on TVI Express, and now Australia. Hungary is on too. That's three out of eight continents already. There is no proof that the company has any legitimate income other than from recruitment, income is paid into eWallet, not bank cards. The whole paragraph is, well bull****.


⑦社会影 响不同
Impact on Society is different

传销大多靠巨额拉人头,欺骗诱导,甚至限制人身自由,而使一些参与者家破人亡。
TVI俱乐部不可能让任何人倾家荡产,也绝对不 会危害社会。你一次271美金的付出,终生拥有享受公司旅游优惠服务和推广获得佣金的经营权,还可以发展会员赚取巨额收入;所以说271美金的投入,非常 值得。更大赚钱机会就靠个人努力了。
Pyramid scheme relies on recruiting, and ruins lives, including lose all their money, and even kidnapping. TVI [Express] cannot cause any one to lose  all their money, and absolutely will not endanger society. All you do is pay $271 once, and that's it, to enjoy lifetime discount on travel products, plus qualify for board payout if you chose to recruit. That $271 is really worthwhile, and your own efforts will determine your success.

ANALYSIS: Again, "weak analogy". Just because TVI Express does NOT resemble those "military style" pyramid schemes in China does NOT prove that it is NOT a pyramid scheme. It only provs it is not a military-style pyramid scheme. Also fails to mention that victims are often encouraged to invest in "multiple positions" (i.e. stacking), so your overall investment is often much more than mere $271 USD or whatever. If TVI Express does NOT allow stacking, this partial argument would be somewhat valid, but TVI Express DOES allow stacking, so this reason is, well, bull****. The "lifetime discount" can be had for free on Travelocity. The board payout is obtained by recruiting, yet it insists it is NOT a pyramid scam. Is this guy blind, or self-delusional?

所以,看问题要看本质,自由俱乐部不是传销,它不同于传销,也不属于多层次,只有4层!我们不伤害他人,不 危害社会,还能给每个人提供一个以小搏大的赚钱机会,这未尝不是一件好事。

So, looking at the problem, you have to look at the essense. It is a club, not pyramid scheme. It is not multi-level, because there are only 4 levels! We don't hurt others, we don't hurt society. We simply give all to earn a lot of money by investing a little, and this is is a good thing.

ANALYSIS: The "four level" explanation is bogus. There are TWO pyramids you have to go through, so it's EIGHT LEVELS, not four, to get the big payout. And if you want some of those special prizes, like laptops, vacations, and cars, it'll take a lot more levels. As all of the earlier explanations are BS, the conclusion is BS as well. 

FINAL ANALYSIS: As you can see, the so-called "7 differences of TVI Express from pyramid scheme" used plenty of logical fallacies to convince you TVI Express is legitimate, and fails quite spectacularly.
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