Critique of Emjay07's blog, part 7

Last time we talked about "code of conduct" of TVI Express, EmJay07 transcribed the entire comment thread to his website, which is available here:

http://emjay07.blogspot.com/2010/06/conversation-with-blogger-kasey-chang.html

At the end, I invited him to provide some proof, and pointed out that unless the proof came from TVI Express, his proof would be unofficial and barely relevant.

"Unless TVI Express releases a code of conduct on their website or publish such a list, you got NOTHING to prove your point. When TVI Express does so, I'll post a retraction. Until then, you've proven nothing."

So what was EmJay07's response? He agreed with me.

"Clearly, he doesn't want facts as I was up to give names of people who are "kicked out" (in his words), but he wont ask for it.. unless company posts it on their website.  I'm not here to prove who was blocked and who wasn't. I have the facts but oh yea, I'm NOT the company .. and so isn't any other blogger here... Who cares anyway?"

One sentence, he wrote " I was up to give names of people..." Then a sentence later he wrote "I'm not here to prove who was blocked and who wasn't.".  Are EmJay07 wishy-washy? Delirious? Confused? Or schizophrenic? You decide.

And STILL have proven nothing. Quoting EmJay07 again,

"there was no point in conversing further."

Indeed there's nothing more to say, since you have no proof to offer. You claimed there is a code of conduct, but you provided no proof. You claimed members have been kicked off due to violations of code of conduct, but you provided no proof. You say you will provide some, then you say you won't.

Did you finally realize the futility of your own lame argument? 

You should stop. You are just embarrassing yourself.

EDIT: It had been a week since EmJay07's post. Do you think he's had enough? Or will he be back for more?

EDIT2: It's been MORE than 2 weeks. Guess he ain't coming back, or else his brain exploded from thinking in circles. How else would you explain him claiming TVI Express have a code of conduct and will kick people out for violating it, which he then violated,  thus, begging to be kicked out by TVI Express?

MLM Attorney explains what is a legal MLM; TVI Express is not

EmJay07, who has a blog of his own that criticizes my blogs (usually without basis, but that would be an opinion), cited. A Mr. Nehra, one of the few attorneys what specialized in MLM, for some reference to something about pay commission in certain cases are legal, and claim that somehow proves he knows MLM law.

What he did not realize is Mr. Nehra actually published an article on what constitutes a legal MLM (at least in the US of A and Canada), which I will quote below. And TVI Express does NOT fit the criteria listed. Therefore, TVI Express cannot be legal in the US of A or Canada, and very likely, in my opinion, not legal in the rest of the world.

Critique of EmJay07's blog, part 6

Or rather, continuation of Part 3, let's see what EmJay07 replied this time...

"“That you cannot even redeem directly”? - What does he mean by that? He definitely hasn’t done his homework well but the fact is that once you are a TVI Express member, the only way you do it is “directly” by yourself."

That is "word twisting", folks. Because here's the original, from which I quote...

"...that you cannot even redeem directly. You have to pay extra $150 to redeem it."

EmJay07 chose to interpret "redeem directly" to suit his own purposes. That is twisting words. And he accuses me of "word twisting". Rather hilarious, wouldn't you say? Go look in a mirror, EmJay07.

"NOWHERE have TVI Express announced that “1%” but Kasey follows the numbers randomly generated by his own over-thinking mind. Oh, I know how he got it. As per his own statement in one of his blogs, he mentioned that the company TVI Express or some top leader of TVI Express had announced that already “thousands” of people have redeemed their certificates (and yes, we are talking about the development phase in the past). So, does “thousands” mean 1%? Must say his mind is fastidious enough to go with the lowest possible number which proves nothing but his over-paranoid character."

When people say "thousands", lowest possible number is 2000, and highest possible number if 9000. That is common sense. Do the math with 600000 members, and either way the number is too low to contemplate (from 1.5% to well under a percent, average to about 1%). I specifically used the HIGHEST number, 9000 in my calculations.  He said I used the "lowest". Who's twisting words? If you do the math with 1 million members, the results are 0.9% or lower.

Critique of EmJay07's blog, part 5

I see EmJay07 has posted another rebuttal, accusing me this time of "twisting words". As he had demonstrated "multiple times" in the past, he can't argue. He had argued himself into a corner, and this time, he accuses me of "twisting words".

"how much credence should Kasey Chang be given when he is pasting stuff from my blog and well many random websites every other day while pointing at them and blogging immaterial of the fact that he is himself copying??"

Oh, but clearly EmJay07 has no idea what "fair use" is. As the "fair use doctrine" is pretty long, just go read the Wikipedia entry yourself. But to summarize... it is permissible to use a small portion of other people's work to provide commentary and review of the material, and that is exactly what I have done: demonstrate that EmJay07's points are ill-constructed, logically faulty, and ignorant (of the laws involved).

As for why EmJay07's wholesale copy is NOT "fair use"? Simple... he added nothing to it, other than "hey look here". And he quoted my blog posts left and right. And he accuses me of quoting other blogs (and his blog)? That's just so funny. 

You are rather amusing...EmJay07... constructing one lame argument after another. Are you a masochist? Seems like you enjoy getting taken down a peg or two every few days, by making faulty accusations.

Did you approve my comment yet?  UPDATE:Yes he did. He's just a bit slow.

More TVI Express supporters denying truth in front of their eyes

I posted a scathing comment of an existing TVI Express review that was posted months ago. The author clearly had not came back to update it... but someone else did... a "Mike Johnson"

Mike Johnson... MJ... You don't supposed he's related to EmJay07, the debater who argued himself into a corner, that he should be banned from TVI Express for stealing TVI Express material, something that TVI Express website says you should not do?

But any way, here is what MJ wrote, and my point by point rebuttal.

@kschang,
1. It is clearly mentioned in their Terms & Conditions that any taxes and processing charges have to be borne by the members and the same is mentioned in their latest announcement too. Donna did post the links to their announcements which state so, so everything is mentioned if you read more properly.

And my reply was

A1) "clearly mentioned in their Terms & Conditions that any taxes and processing charges have to be borne by the members" No it did not. It did mention hotel taxes, and some surcharges if exchange rates change, or if suppliers raised prices, but no such thing as "processing fee". It may now, but it did not before.
Here's a view of the certificate itself. No mention of any such charges as "taxes and processing fee".
http://hispanotviexpress.blogspot.com/2009/12/que-

Collection of TVI Express "weasel reviews"

Weasel reviews are posted by unethical "marketing coaches" who say nice things about TVI Express without any fact-checking, and ends with phrases such as "you need to know marketing to succeed, and you need to contact me for the right training".

Here are six examples

Example 1: I know this is not a scam because... uh... it's so easy, AND you need my help!

Example 2: I use false premises to "prove" TVI Express is not scam, but I was NOT promoting TVI Express

Example 3: Is TVI Express a scam? No! Why? Because I said so! Really! Trust me! You need my help!

Example 4: I have no idea what this company really does, but if you want to succeed, you need my help.

Example 5: I stole this article from another marketing coach, who has no idea what he's talking about

Example 6: I posed questions, which I don't answer, but I want you to contact me for training


Weasels are just one of four types of TVI Express supporters.

A couple more thoughts about piracy of TVI Express content

As per TVI Express "disclaimer", you are NOT supposed to copy or repost ANY content from TVI Express. You are authorized to print extra copies, but reposting its announcements, clearly crosses the line according to TVI Express' own website.

Yet this is done on virtually all TVI Express websites. The logo was pirated. A lot of art was pirated. Some TVI Express websites are in fact, wholesale copies of the original, though some have reformatted them into a different look, at least. There is NO WAY you can argue all that as "fair use". Just a logo? Maybe. The entire announcement, including the graphical header? Doubt it.

Which brings four things to mind... 

1) If TVI Express WANTS them copied, why don't they just say so? TVI Express have modified their websites many times before, and whatever language they need to add for this would be minimal. Yet this was never done.

2) If TVI Express just want them linked, not copied, why would they intentionally hide the URL? (I know how to link to any announcement directly, but then I know Javascript pretty well)  It makes no sense.

3) Do TVI Express members actually read or even CARE about the terms and conditions that they supposedly agreed to?

4) Why haven't TVI Express done anything about all these copyright violations? One of the Vietnamese TVI Express websites is IDENTICAL to the regular TVI Express website except it's been translated into Vietnamese, and some minor details changed.

Which brings to mind some possibilities... Keep in mind these are merely possibilities, not allegations.

a) TVI Express is too busy to enforce copyright of their own material

Possible answer, but unlikely. Any reputable company knows that their image is one of the most important items they own, and you can't protect your image if you don't control your own copyrighted material. Who knows what mischief can be done with the logos and whatnot?

It is also interesting that "TVI Express" is not registered as a trademark or service mark that I know of. While it is not needed, it is an indication of how serious the company is about protecting its name.

b) TVI Express don't care about copyright of their own material

Far more likely, since they have had almost 18 months to think about it. The interesting question is... why?

Logical extrapolation: they don't care, because it is NOT important.

Why is it not important? Because the whole thing is a scam. (yes, that's an opinion)  Why spend time and money on stuff that doesn't bring in more recruits? The more recruits, the more the "owners" of TVI Express will cash out. (those are facts)

So why have a copyright clause at all? Because all companies have one. It's good disguise. (facts) it was probably NEVER intended to be enforced. (Yes, that's an opinion.)

Yes, the reasoning is pretty thin. Do you have a better explanation on why a company would have a copyright clause that was never enforced? 

TopTVIExpressTeam pushes yet something else

Now they push something called "Revolving Relay".

Frankly, I don't care what Revolving Relay is. The fact that they ping-pong from one thing to another is not the point. The point is they are NOT with TVI Express any more. People will not stay with suspicious companies, even if it promises the sun and the moon.

Draw your own conclusions.

http://toptviexpressteam.com/top-tvi-express-leader-joining-revolving-relay/

UPDATE: Toptviexpressteam.com is dead, and Revolving Relay is basically TVI Express clone (i.e. another pyramid scheme)

The three types of TVI Express supporters (and one in disguise)

After tracking TVI Express since late 2009, I think I can classify TVI Express supporters in roughly three types:  the (dumb) debater, the liar/denier, and the evangelical/maniac. If you throw in the weasel reviewers, that'd be four, but the last type do not actually support TVI Express.

(Slightly edited on June 28th)

The supporters can be a mixed breed, by using tactics from all three types.  Let us examine each "breed" in detail.

TVI Express supporter suggests kicking himself out of TVI Express for ethical violations

It is interesting what TVI Express supporters will do to support their cause, often by doing the exactly wrong things. Sometimes, they use so much faulty logic and lie so much, they paint themselves into a corner.

EmJay07 is one such example. He previously declared that he personally testifies that TVI Express does have a code of conduct, and violators are kicked out, even though he can't prove it beyond his own testimony, or produce such a "code of conduct" that is publicly viewable.

Then he proceed to clone a TVI Express announcement, which, according to TVI Express website, one should NOT do. And when I pointed that out, he loudly proclaimed that he did it INTENTIONALLY.

Thus, according to himself, TVI Express should kick him out. Right?  (or admit he lied about such code of conduct)

CanTarun Trikha even speak for TVI Express?

I know Tarun Trikha already speaks for TVI Express, as he had been spotted at various TVI Express "conventions", meetings, and even conference calls. However, does he even have the legal right to? Is he a TVI Express employee? Or a TVI Express officer? If he is neither, would anything he say, wrote, or promised, worth anything? Or would they all be hearsay, personal opinions, and thus, be completely worthless?

Let us find out, based on publicly available information.

First of all, what is Tarun Trikha's official position in TVI Express? According to TVI Express, Tarun Trikha is an advisory board member. From the TVI Express website:

Okay, but what does an advisory board member actually do?

In other words, advisory board members are still distributors, and their job is to help other TVI Express distributors. They get some training, and they are sent to "represent" TVI Express on some functions. Is he employee of TVI Express? Does what he say actually count? Can he commit TVI Express to anything? If not, who can?

Critique of Emjay07's blog, part 4

I see Emjay07 has posted a part 4. This may become a regular feature on this blog. As Emjay07 did not seem to do too well in part 1, part 2, and part 3, let's see how well he does in part 4.

First of all, EmJay07 is nobody special. I've critiqued many TVI Express member and supporters websites and blog entries before. I am an ardent critic of faulty reasoning, logical fallacies, and untruths. If EmJay07's support of TVI Express have faulty reasoning, logical fallacies, and untruths, I'll gladly point them out.

So, how well did EmJay07 did on part 4? Not so well. He wrote on his blog:

As it states a pyramid scheme is the exchange of money primarily for the enrolling of other people without any Product OR Service.

OR it is even generally described by people as a scheme where people at the top make money but the others don't.

In regards to TVI Express, the product component obligation is fulfilled by their 6N7D vacation package which is their core product and has now been revised to 7N8D for some of the accommodations depending upon the hotel and availability. Apart from the product fulfillment, they also offer a range of services and what are they? See below:

1.      A big number of discounted deals listed through their travel engine

2.      Lifetime access to a full-fledged travel portal.

Two problems here.

1) the 7D6N package (or 8D7N now with the upgrade), is not a product. It is merely a gimmicky certificate, (even the border design is stolen off another website) that you cannot even redeem directly. You have to pay extra $150 to redeem it. That's not a product. At best, it's... uh... 60% of a product? Yet EmJay07 claims it is the "core product". Besides, you can't buy the product without the membership. How can it be a product if nobody ever sells it? Who's selling what to whom?

And I haven't even mentioned the alleged redemption rate of 1% as per information released by TVI Express itself, and the broken promises of TVI Express for the booking portal for almost a year...

2) travel engine and travel portal is the SAME THING. You can't count the same thing twice. Furthermore, the so-called portal is available on Travelocity.com FOR FREE. So what's the $250 joining fee for? It's not for the 7D6N since you need to pay yet ANOTHER $150 for that. Or put it another way... Before the $150 fee, you *could* say that the $250 joining fee buys the 7D6N trip. Now, you can't even claim that since you need to pay ANOTHER $150 to get the trip.

TVI Express distributors are stealing content from each other

Would you condone online plagiarism by supporting TVI Express members who plagiarizes?

Take this Google search example... The original is by "E Johnson", called "TVI Express Review - Is TVI Express Just Another Fly by Night MLM Company, Or is TVI Legit?" dated October 26, 2009   It was republished by a different URL on December 2009.  The article itself is quite lousy, but that didn't stop people from plagiarizing it, and slapping their own name on it.

The same article, virtually word for word, except the ending, was re-released by a different guy, called Michael Wyrosdick on Free Press Release , dated November 16, 2009. 

Same article again, was published at http://bykeyword.com/tvi-express-scam/ but undated. And the name portions and such had been cut out.

Then some idiot decided to clone the content AGAIN as if it's fresh, just yesterday, June 2010. Again, no name, no attribution.

This was not an isolated incident. TVI Express members are NOT shy about cloning content from everywhere, even when the source clearly indicates "do not copy". One of the most often cloned content... TVI Express website itself. Second most cloned... TVI Express announcements.

TVI Express Redemption Terms, circa December 2009 found, interesting terms indeed

Found the FULL terms and conditions of redemption as of December 2009... It's NOT pretty.

Some very interesting caveats.

• There is no mention of any such thing as "processing charges" (#1). It does mention taxes, but hotel taxes should paid to the hotel, not TVI Express.  Yet it seems that taxes are being collected by TVI Express, and you don't get a refund for the taxes should you cancel. (#12)
• Booking are only accepted MORE than 30 days ahead, but you must start a trip LESS THAN 60 days within booking.  (#2 and #8).
• If you cancel, you lose the package altogether (#6)
• You only have 1 year to redeem the offer, else you lose it. (#7)
• TVI Express disavow anything our distributors may have said or implied. (#17)
• TVI Express can change all of this at any time, without even telling you (#22)
• TVI Express comply with a certain UK law as a disclaimer, even though on the same website, TVI Express claim it is only subjected to India and Cyprus laws. The UK law being the 1998 Data Protection Act (#24)

This is interesting, since this is a slight relaxation of the terms I found earlier on an even older Chinese website, that had said cancellation charges are 250 British pounds.

Here's a copy off another TVI Express distributor website.

Oh, and EmJay07, here's proof that the disclaimer was NOT there

Here's a copy of the TVI Express OLD offer, copied from a TVI Express distributor website:

No disclaimer at all for the first line. This one was so old, it actually kept the original wording: "5-star property", not 3-5 stars.

Critique of EmJay07's blog, part 3

In part 3 of EmJay07's blog, we'll find out what other "truth" he claims to unveil. This part seems to be about ACCC and TVI Express.

First he takes issue with my title: "TVI Express is banned in Australia".

Okay, I'll admit that may be slight exaggeration. The title should be "TVI Express banned in Australia until further notice".

Second, he goes on to harp about ACCC's "track record" of losing some previous cases, against ACN, for instance.

What he did not bother to mention is ACN case dragged on for two years. ACN lost the first round in front of a judge, ACN cooperated fully with ACCC, opened up its books for auditing. In the end, ACN was only cleared upon appeal when it was demonstrated ACN reps are NOT paid by recruiting alone, but only by purchases of customers AFTER they were recruited as customers. If the recruited customers don't buy anything, the reps are not paid.

TVI Express distributors are paid by recruiting, esp. when TVI Express' own FAQ states "you don't need to sell any products". There are no customers, only distributors, and the only thing they distribute is the distributorship. There are no sales to outside customers. In order to get paid, you have to recruit. That makes TVI Express an illegal pyramid scheme, esp. when the $150 redemption fee is taken into account. And that, renders any comparison to ACN completely moot.

Then, EmJay07 decided to throw in multiple implications... Because there is no word on the FBI website, FBI must not be investigating TVI Express, and therefore TVI Express is legitimate.

The problem with that assertion is... 1) FTC is the main investigative agency regarding pyramid schemes, not the FBI. See Koscot, Amway, and Fortuna. 2) FBI don't make their investigations public. It would compromise the investigation. It is common sense. 3) Lack of public investigation in no way proves TVI Express is legitimate.

EmJay07... you were doing so well! You did raise a few interesting points, but with that unsupported implication after implication, you've pretty much ruined your own credibility! There is no "truth" in your statement! Just vague implications!  Hope you do better in your next blog entry!

UPDATE: Darn, next blog entry on his blog is a carbon copy of a TVI Express announcement! For a guy who claims TVI Express has a code of conduct, he sure isn't following it... See the note at the bottom of the annoucement page at TVI Express.com?





EDIT: Well, EmJay07...  I see you claim that you're doing TVI Express a favor. The fact is TVI Express says "do not copy", and you violated their wishes. That's very interesting behavior from someone who seems to love TVI Express as much as you do. Unless TVI Express actually says "please copy", you are not supposed to copy it. Public service is not an excuse. The fact that you did so makes one wonder about your ethics.

Critique of EmJay07's blog, part 2

As stated before, EmJay07 and I had a bit of debate regarding TVI Express, and he had decided to post his comments as his own blog. Here's the second entry. Did it unveil any more truth than the first one?

His main complaint about my blog entry is that I "seem" to have ignored the fact that TVI Express had always maintained that "taxes and processing charges" are always to be member responsibility.

Unfortunately, he cannot provide any outside proof that TVI Express "always maintained" such terms and conditions either. So again, he chose to pick on one aspect of my assertion, but provided no counter-proof.

The best he can do is point at the CURRENT TVI Express webpage, where "except taxes and processing fees" is hidden in a bubble box that you only see if you leave the cursor on the line "7-day 6-night accommodations". That proves the disclaimer is there NOW, but proves nothing about before.

Though he did got me on one point: I can't prove it WASN'T there before either.

I then presented a copy of the certificate itself, which mentioned nothing about taxes and processing fee. Then the part about the borders being stolen from another website.

His counterclaim was just that my facts about "pirated" borders and other matters are "not relevant". Consider the implication: if TVI Express don't blink about that stealing that "certificate" border, which it had sent to a million people, what does that say about their ethics or code of conduct? But according to EmJay07, it is "not relevant". Yet he previously claimed that TVI Express *does* have a code of conduct or code of ethics (which nobody had seen). Does that code of conduct apply to TVI Express itself? Apparently not.

Another thing to think about, folks. Something that costs NO EXTRA for 17 months (since January 2009), suddenly costs $150 after June 9th, 2010. And EmJay07 still concludes its a "great deal". Maybe it is, but that's up to you to decide. 

What EmJay07 did NOT tell you... If it costs $150 to redeem the 7-day 6-night, then what is that initial $250 for?  To qualify you for the $10000 payout, of course. That essentially PROVES TVI Express is a pyramid scheme, since that "7-day 6-night" thing is clearly NOT part of the $250. So they can't even claim that $250 buys the "7-day 6-night" product any more.

However, as always, "make an informed and educated decision!" that part, I do agree with EmJay07. I just don't agree with his implications. Make up your own mind.

Found original redemption terms and conditions, no mention of $150

On a Chinese blog, which was the first to debunk TVI Express, I found the original terms and conditions for redeeming the 7-day 6-night trip. The language would have since been changed, but for reference here's the original:

"1) Additional Charges: Though the accommodation package is completely free but the member has to pay hotel room taxes. Also, we reserve the right to levy some additional charges in the event of changes in exchange rates or price rises made by wholesalers or other suppliers. If the cost of any accommodation increases due to exchange rate fluctuations, price increases, tax changes or any other reason, you are required to pay the increase when notified by us or you may cancel the booking which may result in cancellation fees. We are not liable in any way if any increase occurs."

In other words, the "taxes and processing fees" are only added later, just as TVI Express had always done: change the terms without informing anybody. Hotel room taxes would be paid to the hotel, not to TVI Express. The dollar had not fallen THAT much to require exchange surcharges. If some suppliers had raised prices, TVI Express should have provided alternates that do not have surcharges. Instead, it had just levied a global "processing fee". Is that the conduct of a reputable company? You decide.

But there are couple other shockers in their old redemption terms and conditions... If someone can post the current version of the terms and conditions for redemption, I'd love to see it. 

6) Nullification of the Offer: If under any circumstances a booking is cancelled, we considered the package used.

Yes, that's exactly what it says. If you cancel, you lose the package completely. AND you pay cancellation charges, see below.

12) Cancellation Charges: There will be a mandatory £250 (or equivalent currency) charge if a booking is cancelled OR amended. We reserve the right to charge £250 (or equivalent currency) per booking if you fail to check-in on your chosen date.

Pretty draconian terms, wouldn't you say? Did you read through all the terms before you got the certificate?

Critique of EmJay07's blog, part 1

Recently, a fellow blogger EmJay07 engaged in some interesting debate with me in my blog comments, and I see that he had started a competing blog, which he named "Unveiling the Truth". If you want to read a pro TVI Express viewpoint, go right ahead.  However, how much truth did he unveil? Let us find out.

First entry ever... He claims I gave people the wrong impression that TVI Express is misleading people into believing that Warren Buffet invested in TVI Express.  You can read the comments here where we discussed the issue.

When I provided examples of the people who claimed Warren Buffett invested in TVI Express, he claims those are just unscrupulous distributors who lied, and TVI Express cannot be held responsible for lies of its distributors.

When I pointed out that TVI Express should share part of the blame for mangling the quote, has no code of conduct / codec of ethics, and had not publicly banned any members for unethical behavior, he claimed he "personally" knew some people who were kicked off, and that somehow proves TVI Express have a code of conduct. However, he provided no verifiable proof for his assertions.

I guess Emjay07 is calling his unsupported personal opinion "truth". It is up to you whether you should believe him or not.

However, I must thank him for at least a somewhat intellectual debate, even though he did threw in some subtle insults here and there.

UPDATE: I see he has posted our entire comment-sation on his blog, and claimed victory. Well, go ahead and read his transcript, which appears to be accurate, but what exact did he claim?

He wrote: "you will easily figure that TVI Express in no way has indicated that Warren Buffet or any of the public figures listed there has endorsed TVI Express or even has any relation with TVI Express."

But what I wrote is: "But did you ever wonder just WHICH companies was Mr. Buffet was referring to? It sure was NOT TVI Express."

So we actually agree that TVI Express was NOT invested in by Mr. Warren Buffett, or Berkshire Hathaway. 

Who's unveiling the truth?

The only truth here is "Mr. Warren Buffet had NOT invested in TVI Express". 

The rest are all assertions by EmJay07, and what proof did he have to backup his assertions? Nothing. 

So what truth did he unveil?

Did British Chinese complaint forced TVI Express out of London?

A search through archives about TVI Express shows a blog entry on a British Chinese Newspaper that claims in cooperation with a blogger from China, the website investigated the alleged "Marble Arch Tower" address of TVI Express, confirmed that it is very suspicious, and notified the landlord probably during August 2009. Within a month (September 2009), TVI Express was gone from its London address. Coincidence? Maybe not!

The original is at http://linqiu.5d6d.com/viewthread.php?tid=1439 , but you can read my translation here.

Published 2009-8-22 20:21

Exposing International Pyramid Scheme"British Chinese Times" exclusive cooperation with Chinese anti-pyramid volunteer

揭穿跨国传销骗局《英中时报》独家联手中国反传销志愿者

日前国内的一名 反传销志愿者与本报联系，称近来他的工作方向是揭露一个目前在国内疯狂宣传的一个叫 英国TVI旅游快车 的网络传销组织。 

Recently, a Chinese anti-pyramid scheme volunteer has contacted this newspaper, explaining that recently he is trying to expose a extremely virulent pyramid scheme called [British] TVI [Travel] Express (ed: just "TVI Express" after here), an Internet based pyramid scheme.
希望与本报合作调查，传反传销知识，揭露传销组织骗局，希望尽可能的帮助人们远离传销，避免被骗。 
He hopes to cooperate with this newspaper, spread anti-pyramid knowledge, expose the fraud behind the scheme, and hope to help people avoid pyramid schemes and not fall for the deception.

TVI Express Secrets says TVI Express is a "flash in the pan"

I don't know what opportunity are they selling now, but they claim their opportunity is real, not "flash in the pan like TVI Express".

http://www.tviexpresssecrets.com/index.html

Think about that.

It's semi-official: TVI Express is on China's black-list

ZhiXiaoWan, or DirectSalesNet of China, has compiled the semi-official blacklist of China's illegal MLMs, and yes, TVI Express (or "British TVI Travel Express", its Chinese name) is on it!


http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.zhixiaoren.com/blog/blog_news_article.asp%3Fblogid%3D11926%26articleid%3D180674&ei=B0AVTPiLO5O6Ncn-qVA&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDYQ7gEwATge

LetThemIn divorces itself from TVI Express

LetThemIn.com, a online business coach, abandones TVI Express with simple announcement:

"We no longer promote TVI Express"

http://www.letthemin.com/we-no-longer-promote-tvi-express/

Found 3 more in China convicted of running TVI Express

This actually was released in March 2010, which would make these three the first convicted of running TVI Express scam in China. However, the Chinese websites are full of spam by TVI Express members spreading false information, and finding this article took some Google-fu. But here is is (link to original Google Translation). Apparently, only a civil penalty were accessed, which is why it received little notice.

Jincheng City Branch, Industry and Commerce Administration Administrative Penalty Notices
晋城市工商行政管理局城区分局行政处罚公告
 

Time :2010-03-09 11:47 Source: Market Guide Shanxi Shanxi News Net

时 间：2010-03-09 11:47　来源：山西新闻网山西市场导报 

张俊群、吴少娥、吴俊三人非法组织网络传销，本局依法作出没收非法财物和罚款的行政处罚
Zhang Jun Chun, Wushao Er, Wu Junsan illegal organized pyramid schemes, this Administration shall perform confiscation of illegal property and assess civil penalties.

因当事人现无 法联系，本局在作出行政处罚决定之前，依照法定程序在太行日报2009年12月30日公告送达了行政处罚听证告知书，已告知当事人拟作出行政处罚的事实、 理由和依据及其依法享有的权利。 
Because the administration were not able to contact the parties involved (ed: the investigation was done "in absentia") before the decision to assess civil punishment, according to legal procedures, the administration has, as required by law, published their assessment in Taishing Daily News on December 30, 2009, in the public announcement section, to notify all the results and assessment as determined by by administration, including the facts, reasons and basis and their rights under the law.

本局无法采取直接送达或者邮寄送达方式送达行政处罚决定书，根据《工商行政管理机关行政处罚程序规定》 第六十七条的规定，现将行政处罚决定书予以公告送达。 
Council could not make direct delivery or by mail a written decision on administrative penalty, thus, according to "industry and commerce administrative penalty procedures" 67th article, provides a public notification so the subjects can be notified.

行政处罚决定书（晋市工商城石罚字〔2010〕5号）。 
Administrative Penalty (Jin City Industrial and Commerce City, Si-Fa Zhi 〔2010〕 #5). 

经查当事人张 俊群、吴少娥、吴俊三人自2009年4月开始组织开展TVI国际旅游俱乐部网络传销活动，违反了《禁止传销条例》第七条之规定，根据《禁止传销条例》第二 十四条的规定，责令当事人停止违法行为，并作出以下行政处罚： 
The investigation shows Zhang Junchun, Wu ShaoEr, Wu Junsang started from April 2009, to spread the organization called [International] TVI Express [Travel], recognized as an illegal pyramid scheme, in violation of the "Regulations prohibiting pyramid schemes," the provisions of Article VII. Per "Regulations prohibiting pyramid schemes," the provisions of Article XXIV, the parties are ordered to stop illegal activities, and be subjected to the following administrative penalties:

1、没收非法财物笔记本电脑1台、手机1部； 

1, confiscation of illegal property: 1 laptop computer, 1 mobile phone

2、罚款人民币200000元。 

2, a fine of 200,000 yuan.

 本处罚决定书 自公告发布之日起经过60日，即视为送达。
The notice will be published for 60 days, as required by law, and the subjects are considered to have been "served" notice after 60 days from first day of publication.  

如不服本处罚 决定，可以自送达之日起60日内，依法向晋城市工商行政管理局或者晋城市城区人民政府申请复议。
If the subject wish to appeal, the subjects may, within 60 days from the date of service, file appeal with Jincheng Industry and Commerce Administration, or Jincheng City government for reconsideration.  

也可以在公告 之日起3个月内直接向人民法院提起诉讼。 

Also, an appeal can be filed with the people court within 3 months of the "served" date.

晋城市工商 行政管理局城区分局 
Jincheng City Branch, Industry and Commerce Administration

 二○一○年三 月九日

March 9th, 2010 

Obtainer Media in Germany fights bogus PR with real PR

Obtainer Media in Germany is fighting bogus press release from TVI Express distributors with its own press release. It's in German.

http://www.openpr.de/news/432885/TVI-Express-in-vielen-Laendern-illegal-Haftstrafen-fuer-Vertriebler-in-China.html

And here's the translation

"Travel Venture Express International (TVI) was seen critically in Germany for several weeks and months. Relevant media could not believe the great promise and the concept is not entirely (the OBTAINER reported). Internationally against TVI came more and more doubts. Now it seems the whole thing to actually explode like last year, the real estate bubble of the banks with their bad loans. Recruited in late April TVI distributors in Indonesia, without having received a license from the Direct Selling Bureau (DSB). From DSB unlicensed companies in the direct sales there are, however, as illegal. After registration, the DSB shall consider a company and issue a license if everything is consistent with state law. TVI has not even registered, and for good reason: TVI would receive a license by the DSB, as they have in fact not a product. The vouchers, which are offered for $ 250, are, according to American media originally intended as a "giveaway" for the promotion of travel agents and for $ 2.99 to have.

The Australian Court acted as one of the first and has led to a restraining order banning TVI Express in Australia. The Chinese have also traded. Already in November 2009 a woman was arrested in connection with TVI. A month later, another reported higher sales in China shall be paid to injured parties. He then introduced himself to the authorities. This approach saved the sales of detention, because the court classified the return of the money and the Self-Denunciation a mitigation. He got away with a suspended sentence. End of this month were sentenced in China several other TVI partner to prison sentences of six to 18 months.

The TVI is a classic pyramid scheme, may no doubt someone else. Who is behind but TVI Express is difficult to ascertain. The alleged head of the Limited in February was still in London or at Heathrow. However, was found in the company records at Companies House, "no company with the entry" Travel Ventures International. The only company in the business register, which is found there is, TVI Limited. The good, however, the U.S. company Ascent Media, the TV since 1970, offering video and audio solutions and is registered under a different address. Meanwhile TVI Express operates under Louki Akrita 14, AgiaZoni, Limassol, Cyprus. The company behind the investor group that was mentioned is also unknown how many of the leaders. If one or the other exists at all and not all pure inventions. Rumor has it that behind all living in New Delhi "Tarun Trikha" lies, who had already in 2009 about 36,000 downlines. He is supposed to double-digit millions with the TVI system have earned. Whether this is indeed the head of the serpent, or whether there are still a few more steps to the top of the pyramid, will probably never be solved completely.

Pretty much a recap of my previous investigations, but it's for a good cause. 

TVI Express announced they are charging $150 for your "free" trip

Remember TVI Express promised 7-day 6-night accommodations for two at a 5-star hotel, and split the cost of the airplane ticket for "domestic" travel?

First they shrank the 5-star to 3-5 star.

Then they delayed the booking portal for almost a year.

Finally, they just announced that the booking portal is finally working, over three months since their last promise (March 2010), and LONG since Tarun Trikha promised (November 2009).

And here's the shocker: they are now charging $150 for the trip, as "processing fee", instead of "free".

"There is a fixed charge of USD 150/per booking which goes towards the taxes + processing charges and as per the booking terms & conditions, has to be borne by the member."

As consolation for all this bull**** they are putting members through, they are throwing in one extra night, and allow you to take along some extra poeple (up to 6), if you can squeeze them all into a single room. No mention whether they'll pay for the extra plane tickets though.

Another marketing coach calls TVI Express a scam, part ??

Tyson Smith wishes to tell you why he thinks TVI Express is a scam... written and video message available.

http://tysonsmithblog.com/tvi-express-travel-scam-review

TopTVIExpressTeam now pushes... Shopping Genie?

If you go to their website, you'll find that they are now pushing some sort of fund raising thing.

http://toptviexpressteam.com/

Whatever it is, it is NOT TVI Express, and for that, I wish them luck.

Update: website's dead, and "My Shopping Genie" is makes you install a toolbar in your browser so they can see what you buy and "suggest" sales items. Sounds either okay or creepy.

Found: Who Warren Buffet was really talking about

On TVI Express website, under "Expert Watch", you'll see that they quoted Warren Buffet:

We've already explained that Mr. Warren Buffet was "richest person in the World" in 2008, but NOT 2009 or 2010, as per Forbes.com.

But did you ever wonder just WHICH companies was Mr. Buffet was referring to? It sure was NOT TVI Express.

Turns out one of the companies he was referring to is Pampered Chef, which Berkshire Hathaway *does* own. 

Which brings up another interesting point...

FACT: EVERY legitimate network marketing company has a "code of ethics" for their independent consultants or distributors. Amway has it. ACN has it. Pampered Chef has is (see above).

FACT: TVI Express does NOT have a code of ethics.

Confirmed: TVI-GAT is dead, it's now just GAT

Another TVI-GAT member posted that TVI-GAT is dead. They are taking down all references to TVI Express.

http://besttviglobalassistteam.blogspot.com/2010/06/global-assist-team-gat_10.html

TVI Express: even busted in Saudi Arabia!

If you do not read Arabic, you can go this post through Google Translate at Saihat.net

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://www.saihat.net/vb/showthread.php%3Fp%3D1161079&ei=V4kRTK3UII32MY3ytcgF&sa=X&oi=translate&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBwQ7gEwAjg8

If you do, then please read it in original Arabic.

He even dug up something I haven't noticed before... the certificates. On the other hand, he seemed to have borrowed most of my research on some of my hubpages hubs. Oh well, it's for a good cause.

TVI Express Certificate for 7-day 6-night is a stolen copy

Here's proof that TVI Express even stole their design for the 7-day 6-night certificate from someone else.

Any one seen one of those certificates? Here's a nice big one. The original is a huge file in BMP format, so I won't display it in line. Just note that it is from a TVI Express website, so you can't accuse me of manipulating the image. Here's the argument in pictorial form:

What do you think?

TVI Express no relation with RCI

Image via Wikipedia

You may recall that earlier an Indonesia TVI Express member website published a letter allegedly from Tarun Trikha and TeamTVIOz, that claims that:

"We [TVI Express] are a valued travel company having corporate tie ups with RCI, Cambay Resorts, Sarovar Hotels, Fave Hotel and a few other hotels and resorts. "

So I found RCI's website, rci.com, and sent them a question via their contact us page:

Is it possible for you to clarify your "corporate tie up" with TVI Express in a general sense, without revealing any corporate secrets? Will it be possible to find out which resorts have they booked (if any), how many people have they sent to your resorts, and so on?

And this is their reply (from feedback@rci.com):

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention.  RCI does not sell timeshare and the activities of this entity have not been authorized by RCI.

 EDIT: I see some people insist on seeing the actual e-mail. So, here's the screenshot.

And my original e-mail, just to show you that I really was asking about TVI Express. Note the same inquiry ID number.

If you see any one else claiming TVI Express has a "corporate tie up" with RCI, RCI wants to know about that guy. Send recordings, pictures, website URLs, videos, and more to RCI. They want to know who is using their name without authorization.

Yet another marketing coach calls TVI Express a scam

Go check this guys website. He'll explain to you why he thinks it's a scam.

http://www.alancosens.com/tvi-express-experience-not-so-good/

BehindMLM also researched TVI Express fraud in China

BehindMLM researched TVI Express fraud in China, and managed to duplicate most of my previous reports.

The conclusion is the same: TVI Express is considered illegal pyramid scheme in China, with members arrested, charged, and convicted of fraud.

Go read it yourself.

TVI Express issues bogus news through proxy

A search of news archives today found something new: a "press release" claiming that TVI Express is NOT a scam. The problems with this sort of "fake news" are plentiful.

First of all, press releases are NOT checked for accuracy. On the bottom of that very page, you can find this disclaimer: 

"We [the press release site] do not guarantee the accuracy or completeness of information on or available through this site, and we are not responsible for inaccuracies or omissions in that information or for actions taken in reliance on that information."

In other words, this is virtually worthless. There is no logo attached, so this was  FREE press release. This is no more trustworthy than all those "free article submission" sites out there. Do you really trust information that nobody has checked for accuracy? 

Want to Rent TVI Express's office in London?

Less than 200 pounds per month! (That's not much more than your TVI Express membership)

Here's how much it costs to rent an address at TVI Express "Marble Arch Tower" address per month
http://www.officespace4you.co.uk/virtual-offices-space/london/marble-arch/90-virtual-offices-bryanston-street.htm

It's really not that expensive. 

You can rent an address at TVI Express "Stockley Park" address too, really cheap! Be their neighbor!
http://www.regus.co.uk/locations/GB/Heathrow/HeathrowStockleyPark.htm?product=offices

No real office space available at this location, mind you. Just virtual offices.

We now have reports that TVI Express "office" in Indonesia is a month-to-month rental office in Jakarta. This cannot be independently confirmed, but apparently is a well-known fact for those who live in Jakarta. The fact that it seems to be directly across from a hair salon is quite interesting...

TVI Express and TVITeamOz plans strawman defense

TVITeamOz (the team being sued by Australian ACCC and halted operation), allegedly posted a rebuttal on an Indonesia TVI Express website. Instead of replicating it here, just go read it, then I'll show you how lousy their argument is.   http://www.kliktviexpress.com/pengumuman  

(note: the Indonesian site got weasel-itis and erased the copy of the letter. Unfortunately, they kept a copy on facebook under the same name: pengumuman... so you can't hide!  http://www.facebook.com/topic.php?uid=102721546436429&topic=62&post=272)




What they are doing is using the logical fallacy "strawman" for their defense. Let us pick it apart.

"They" (TeamTVIOz) wrote:

"A pyramid scheme is defined by following characteristics:
--> No product
--> Returns for investments
--> People only at the top make money and rest don’t. All late comers lose their money.
As per the WFDSA and any Direct Selling body, above mentioned are the points which define a Pyramid scheme."

 This is already false. A search of WFDSA's website brought up this definition:

Numerous legislatures around the globe have proscribed pyramid selling. The wording of relevant statutes, codes, articles, acts, regulations and the like vary, but all contain the following core concept: A pyramid is a scheme in which a recruit pays (an entry fee) for the opportunity to receive future benefits (money or privileges) which are primarily derived from that recruit's (and/or subsequent recruits') introduction of additional participants in the scheme, rather than from the sale of products to consumers.

Thus, the scheme's rewards effectively come from the addition of new participants and their investments, not from the sale and distribution of real products to persons who actually use or consume them. No real trading in viable goods or services takes place, and the scheme essentially involves an internal redistribution of wealth from new entrants to the promoters. The scheme serves no legitimate commercial function. The only "trade" being carried on is actually in scheme participants' rights, and the redistribution of participants' entry fees or investments.

          -- http://www.wfdsa.org/legal_reg/index.cfm?fa=pyramid
It's clear that TeamTVIOz is citing their imagination of what WFDSA says, instead of reality. They defined a "strawman" of pyramid scheme, defeated that strawman, and claim the argument has been defeated. They picked some characteristics of pyramid scheme that they do NOT have, say "we don't have that", and they conclude they're not a pyramid scheme. If they claim victory based on that, they will lose. It is as easy as that.

TVI Express Critic Website hit by cyberattack

TVI Express critic Ted Nuyten and his website http://www.businessforhome.org/ was hit by a professional level cyber-attack (called DDOS, distributed denial of service) after publishing a full expose of TVI Express, its alleged leader Tarun Trikha, along with links to every known top level TVI Express distributors with pictures. As of publication of this blog entry, his website is STILL down.

The timing of this attack is very suspicious. Who attacks a critics site, except whom he criticizes?

Those of whom seeking information on TVI Express can seek the archives of this website. Alternatively, you can view the Google Cache version of his website here:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:mg6GoDiwyd4J:www.businessforhome.org/tag/tvi-express/+ted+nuyten+tvi+express&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a